Today we are going to end up with a greater understanding of projections & expectations which impact all of our relationships. We have all often thought about somebody else “Why aren’t they more like me?” We all have selfish expectations & unaware projections that cloud our perceptions of others.Relationships are all about navigating the differences with respect, which can be a lot of work.
Navigating Relationships: Understanding Expectations and Projections
Listen to understand projections & expectations which impact all of our relationships. We all have selfish expectations that cloud our perceptions. If we lack self-awareness then there is even more at stake. We all project aspects of ourselves onto other people, especially the parts of ourselves we don’t take ownership of…which easily contaminates relationships.
We all have selfish expectations. If we lack self-awareness then there is even more at stake. This is why I loved doing group therapy so much because there were many voices contributing to greater self-awareness for every member of the group. We learn so very much about ourselves by listening to others. Some of the most honest feedback I ever received as a client was in group settings. We really love to cloud our perceptions of ourselves to either skew in I’m so bad Darth Vader punish me or the heroic narrative of working so hard to be good. It’s in the more honest middle ground in between these two polarities that we can recognize uncomfortable truths & grow up.
We all project aspects of ourselves onto other people, especially the parts of ourselves we don’t take ownership of…which easily contaminates relationships. Add to this what you believe should be expected as ordinary for Valentine’s Day and if they love me they will know & this is a lethal combination for important relationships.
A 2023 (See, Ovgun) research study of newlyweds found that supportive behaviors are only effective when they match the recipient’s expectations. Which means there needs to be a lot of communication that leads to greater understanding by the giver & receiver.
We all have our own ideas of what love means & we can either consciously or unconsciously test the other person to see if they pass the test. If you project your own insecurities onto your partner then you may constantly feel something is missing instead of recognizing you have to do some work on your own to be more secure. It may not be about them, it very well could be about you.
Taking responsibility for understanding your own projections & expectations is a big part of personal growth and can lead to a more authentic relationship. To help us untangle projections & expectations I’ve invited Talia Bombola. She is a professor, LMFT and podcast host. Her work centers around helping people build up their self-worth by rewiring beliefs about themselves. Talia believes that once we heal the “not enoughness” we often feel inside, we will finally be free to truly connect with others.
Let’s all get on the same page by having you explain projection & how it plays out in relationships?
Talia Bombola, LMFT (04:41.57)
Yeah, so to get on the same page, when we’re looking at relationships of any kind, this could be your romantic relationship, your family relationship, or a relationship with a sibling. I think for the purposes of this podcast, though, it’s most important to talk about the romantic relationship. That when we’re in
When we’re looking at relationships of any kind, this could be your romantic relationship, your family relationship, or a relationship with a sibling. I think for the purposes of this podcast though, it’s most important to talk about the romantic relationship. That when we’re in this beginning phase, we often have illusions and delusions, falsely held beliefs with no evidence of reality.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (05:10.85)
beginning phase. We often have illusions and delusions, falsely held beliefs with no evidence of reality, that this is the way they’ll be, when they love me enough they’ll do this, once we reach this level they’ll stop doing this. We don’t really see the real person in front of us and that’s often why we pick the romantic partner that we have. So when we’re talking about projections and projective identification, which is one of
that this is the way they’ll be. When they love me enough, they’ll do this. Once we reach this level, they’ll stop doing this. We don’t really see the real person in front of us. And that’s often why we pick the romantic partner that we have. So when we’re talking about projections and projective identification, which is one of the cornerstones of the couples therapy that I provide, I’m working through that.
cornerstones of the couples therapy that I provide and working through that is a defense mechanism so it’s in your subconscious, you’re not aware of it until you call it out. That you as an individual are projecting the qualities that you find unacceptable to yourself or about yourself onto the other person or you try to interject them into the other person and then they a defense mechanism, so it’s in your subconscious, you’re not aware of it until you call it out. That you, as an individual, are projecting the qualities that you find unacceptable to yourself or about yourself onto the other person, or you try to interject them into the other person. And then they take it in, and they believe that they are characterized in that way and that it’s true, and then they will respond appropriately.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (06:09.462)
and they believe that they are characterized in that way and that it’s true, and then they will respond appropriately. And this is where we can also frame it as like the disowned parts of ourselves can live in the partner. And this starts in, if we’re looking at psychoanalysis, way far back in our infancy, which is in, when we’re looking at infancy, it’s called primary maternal preoccupation. So when infants are born, every mammal is born,
And this is where we can also frame it as like the disowned parts of ourselves can live in the partner. And this starts in, if we’re looking at psychoanalysis, way far back in our infancy, which is in, when we’re looking at infancy, it’s called primary maternal preoccupation. So when infants are born, every mammal is born knowing what would be the right word, survival technique.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (06:38.826)
knowing what would be the right word, survival technique. So other animals are born knowing how to walk or to run. Humans are born knowing how to cry. And we don’t have another way of communicating. We hope that our attuned parent, usually mother in analytic research language, is present. They’re going to care. They want to learn what does this cry mean? What does that cry mean? So we take that level of attunement or misattunement with us.
So other animals are born knowing how to walk or to run. Humans are born knowing how to cry. And we don’t have another way of communicating. We hope that our attuned parent, usually mother in analytic research language, is present. They’re going to care. They want to learn what does this cry mean? What does that cry mean? So we take that level of attunement or misattunement with us. So the infant creates a reaction in the mother to mobilize the mother to tend to the child. Sometimes this is met, sometimes this is not, and it’s missed either intentionally so the mother can have a break or unintentionally the mother misreads the cry. So all of this to say at the foundation, when you’re looking at the way the psyche creates what we view relationships as, if I was attuned to by my mother,
creates a reaction in the mother to mobilize the mother to tend to the child. Sometimes this is met, sometimes this is not, and it’s missed either intentionally so the mother can have a break or unintentionally the mother misreads the cry. So all of this to say at the foundation when you’re looking at the way the psyche creates what we view relationships as, if I was attuned to by my mother, I’m reasonably going to expect my partner to be attuned to me.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (07:38.248)
I’m reasonably going to expect my partner to be attuned to me and feel frustrated when they’re not. If I wasn’t attuned to by a mother or a parent growing up, I’m going to expect I won’t be attuned to by my partner, therefore I won’t know what to do when they actually do attune to me or I’ll think I’m not enough. I’m not worthy of this. I’m not capable of giving what they’re trying to give to me. I can’t receive it. So at a foundational level,
level, understanding the way you view attachment
Talia Bombola, LMFT (08:07.306)
understanding the way you view attachment comes from your childhood is very important in romantic relationships because then you have maybe a leg up on not projecting as much or having projective identification dance come up as much. It still comes up. But when you are aware of, that’s my stuff. I picked a hyper controlling person because I grew up with a laissez -faire environment
Talia Bombola, LMFT (08:36.886)
I think parenting styles are important to talk about because when we’re looking at the concept of projection and projected identification, what I lacked, I’m going to seek. Also, conversely, what I experienced quite a bit, I’m going to seek. Either way you slice it to understand where these projections come from is often in childhood helps us to have the same foundation for us to have this conversation.
when we’re looking at the concept of projection and projected identification, what I lacked, I’m going to seek. And also, conversely, what I experienced quite a bit, I’m going to seek. So either way you slice it, to understand where these projections come from is often in childhood helps us to have the same foundation for us to have this conversation.
Rhoda: Susan Sarandon says in one movie, the curse of self -awareness. And I loved it, I think I’m the only one that laughed out loud in the theater, but I thought it was so funny because it is such an important part and it is so hard to do at the same time. You know, it for some levels of self -awareness, especially couples who enter into partnership at differing levels of self
Talia Bombola, LMFT (09:28.332)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, for some levels of self -awareness, especially couples who enter into partnership at differing levels of self -awareness, that would be, I would say, would elicit more commonly the parent -child dynamic. We call it the do or done to in analysis. But it’s this hierarchy of I know more than you and I prefer it that way because I have the leg up
on the power and control. But what happens when that other partner also learns and has self -awareness, and then the one who had the most in the beginning feels threatened, that can be disabilizing to the couple.
It’s like, no, no, that’s my role. You don’t get to take my role. That’s my role. Pick a different one.
And yet that’s exactly what we do if we are in a healthy relationship. We do experiment with that missing other side and we embrace it. Then we’re more whole and then we have more range to who we are and what we bring to the table. But first there is the crunch of
wait a minute, we have these two roles and I like them the way they are. And if we like it because it benefits us, we will be more unlikely to budge or to shift if that position in our relationship also complements the positions we occupy in the rest of our life. So if I’m a go -getter and the leader and a driven person, it would make sense that would come out in my romantic relationship.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (10:42.59)
And if we like it because it benefits us, we will be more unlikely to budge or to shift if that position in our relationship also complements the positions we occupy in the rest of our life. So if I’m a go -getter and the leader and a driven person, it would make sense that would come out in my romantic relationship.
However, it may not work in every aspect of my romantic relationship. There ideally is a give and a take. That is, I tell my couples and individuals, it’s not so much that you have to be in the driver’s seat all the time. However, there does have to be somebody occupying the driver’s seat when the vehicle’s in motion. Sometimes you need to pull over and stop metaphorically, but there’s this over -functioning, under -functioning dynamic I often see. That’s one of the projections that can be played out.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (11:37.25)
whether that was from your own family of origin or it’s an overcorrection of your family of origin, that it’s, don’t want to be in the driver’s seat. And the partner is like, but you always are, why would I assume you wouldn’t be? And it’s like, no, I just need someone in there. I don’t feel safe if somebody is not taking the lead. I don’t want to take it all the time. I’d like you to actually, but I did such a good job of modeling that I can be in the lead. You interpreted, you never would need to be.
whether that was from your own family of origin or it’s an overcorrection of your family of origin, that it’s, don’t want to be in the driver’s seat. And the partner is like, but you always are, why would I assume you wouldn’t be? And it’s like, no, I just need someone in there. I don’t feel safe if somebody is not taking the lead. I don’t want to take it all the time. I’d like you to actually, but I did such a good job of modeling that I can be in the lead. You interpreted, you never would need to be.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (12:04.504)
So again, getting the relationship off on the right foot, ideally without as many projective expectations, the longevity increases in my view.
Rhoda Sommer (12:04.742)
Yes, yes, I agree. Are there any other common projections that people put on their partners besides the over responsibility, under responsibility?
Talia Bombola, LMFT (12:22.926)
yeah. Yeah, parent -child, over and under responsibility or functioning. Yeah. I would say their past relationships, like I don’t want to call it baggage, but we all have, you know, we all have baggage that we bring with us. So they’re projecting or treating with like an accusatory behavior or tone. Well, my partner cheated on me in the past and you’re doing the thing.
Rhoda Sommer (12:34.458)
their past relationships. Like I don’t want to call it baggage, but we all have. Yeah, you know we all have baggage that we bring with us. So they’re projecting or treating with like an acute accusatory behavior or tone. Well, my partner cheated on me in the past and you’re doing you’re doing the thing that they did when they tweeted. So you must be too. It’s like magical thinking like jumping to a conclusion. So that’s a huge one bringing in past relationships. Absolutely.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (12:52.918)
you’re doing the thing that they did when they cheated, so you must be too. It’s like magical thinking, like jumping to a conclusion. So that’s a huge one, bringing in past relationships of childhood or romantic relationships. And then kind of this idealization, demonization, or expectations of fulfillment. I can’t even be everything for my oneself. How could I be everything for my partner? It’s an unrealistic expectation based on media and I would say generational stories.
and what relationships used to be because we didn’t have the same economic system. Women weren’t allowed to work.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (13:22.026)
and what relationships used to be because we didn’t have the same economic system, women weren’t allowed to work out of the house, obviously like having a job, they weren’t allowed to have their own bank account. Those more, I want to say antiquated, it might not be the best word, but they’re more antiquated ways of functioning or ways that society functioned. We are kind of outrunning our coverage and women now in relationships want the whole and complete package.
You know, I want you to go to work, bring home the bacon, we both fry it in the pan, but we also talk about the bacon and how it makes us feel and… and my emotions. And guys were like, I’m not there yet. I didn’t know I was supposed to do that. I just brought the bacon. And yeah.
Rhoda Sommer (13:59.002)
Yeah. favorite word to apply to men is overwhelmed. Yeah. Because they’re often, you can just see them, you know, just flooding out with, whoa, wait a second, the horse is like down the road here and I’m just not even sure where we’re going. And trying to get somebody to back
who’s got a little more emotional IQ perhaps and kind of, wait a minute, you gotta make some room so that the other partner can meet you in the middle. Because they’re really flooding out, but the other person doesn’t see that.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (14:45.302)
Mm They say, I would say sometimes they see it, they misinterpret it, and then they cast judgment upon the person who’s like, wait, there was a horse? You didn’t see it running? Why you idiot? Like, and, and they’re in, in their own sense, they’re valid to feel frustrated because usually that stems from no one’s ever going to understand me. No one’s ever going to love me. Usually stems from childhood where they felt misunderstood or mistutened to by a parent.
And they bring that with them in their adult relationships. They pick a partner who’s a bit behind them, maybe EQ development wise, to fulfill this narrative. Right. Yeah. They fulfill the narrative of see no one’s ever going to love me. it’s like, well, what would it take for you to pick a partner who is on your level? I couldn’t do that. Because then I wouldn’t be in the one up position or I would have to confront dark parts of myself. I don’t want to. So in many ways, being in
Talia Bombola, LMFT (15:44.888)
fake quote unquote relationship rather than a real relationship with the person in front of you allows you to maintain your own false often narratives about love, about yourself, and it creates sometimes a false sense of victimhood, not in the victim of crime sense, like, I, woe is me. I have no power in this situation. Look at me. No one will ever love me. It’s like, well, that’s not true. You are currently afraid.
of being with a partner who could match you on your level. That’s scary to you because you’ve never seen it modeled.
Rhoda Sommer (16:13.208)
What role do expectations play in shaping our interactions with partners?
Talia Bombola, LMFT (16:28.614)
Would it be bold to say everything? Would it be bold to say everything? Yeah, truly, to define an expectation, it’s something you should or ought to do without me having to ask. That’s an expectation. And when we have one, we have many.
It’s like the Lay’s potato chips that you can’t eat just one. There’s not just one expectation that you have of a partner because there’s usually like a lockstep system. Well, if they do this, then there’s this flowchart. And if they don’t do this, then there’s this flowchart. So if it’s something that you should or shouldn’t do,
without me having to ask, and I also have the drive to maybe punish or criticize if I feel unseen or misunderstood,
This is where that feedback loop of you didn’t, I don’t know my wants and needs and from childhood, from infancy, right? My baby, I cried when I was a baby. I expected my mom to attune to me. She figured it out. Why can’t you? That’s in my view, the foundation of an expectation. hopefully.
Your adult romantic partner did not grow up in the same childhood home as you. They do not have the same culture and inflection and intonation and knowing you the way your family does. Let’s say you meet your spouse at 35, your family’s known you 35 years. There’s no way your spouse could possibly know you or misunderstand you in the same ways as your family. So you have to give grace and patience and time.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (17:50.67)
The way your family does, let’s say you meet your spouse at 35, your family’s known you 35 years. There’s no way your spouse could possibly know you or misunderstand you in the same ways as your family. So you have to give grace and patience and time, which usually are antithetical for love, which is this passion and intrigue and let’s just get all this going. The expectations underlie everything. You should hold the door open for me. You shouldn’t hold the door open for me because I’m a strong independent woman.
but you should pay all of my bills, but not these ones. We don’t know, we don’t have the language for what I want, what I don’t want, what I need, what I don’t need. And then we expect our partner to also know that about us, which is unrealistic. And we don’t want to have needs as people. Like in evolutionary psychology, it makes us weak. We could die. We don’t lose that instinctual feeling. However, in adult romantic relationships, there’s…
which is unrealistic. And we don’t want to have needs as people. Like in evolutionary psychology, it makes us weak. We could die. We don’t lose that instinctual feeling. However, in adult romantic relationships, there’s like a need to overcome that. it’s necessary to understand where your expectations come from. Yes. And voice them to your partner. Because once you have a voiced expectation, it can then become an agreement. If it’s not voiced, it’s an unreasonable assumption.
Rhoda Sommer (20:39.972)
and we all know the saying about assumptions. So yeah, you want to take the unvoiced expectation, voice it in a realistic way and invite your partner to ideally fulfill it if they want to, but also let go. They’re not going to do it the way that you would. No one will do something the exact way that you would. Sometimes they get close, but there is a nuance and an individuality and an authenticity that people bring
Talia Bombola, LMFT (20:42.392)
So yeah, you want to take the unvoiced expectation, voice it in a realistic way and invite your partner to ideally fulfill it if they want to, but also let go, they’re not going to do it the way that you would. No one will do something the exact way that you would. Sometimes they get close, but there is a nuance and an individuality and an authenticity that people bring to
doing something for someone that we have to appreciate if we want more of
Rhoda Sommer I’m always reminding people that we’re all wired differently. We all have different ideas of how you show love and learning what it is that works for your partner takes time. Yes, it does. And most people are not, what would be the word, either patient or desirous of investing.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (21:28.462)
Yes, it does. And most people are not, what would be the word, either patient or desirous of investing, also seeing time as an investment, to do that for their partner. It’s not going to be the stereotypic 20 -year relationship until you put in that much work. It is almost concerning.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (21:54.174)
and potentially love bombing would be occurring if you’re jumping into a relationship and they’re trying to be like, know you like this, I’m gonna do all of this for you, I’m gonna orient my whole life around you. Right when we’ve met, it’s not healthy. That’s too soon for that to be happening. That actually needs time under the belt of the relationship for it to be healthy and give longevity. Otherwise, I’d be concerned. I’ve had individuals come in and I’m like, that’s too much too soon.
Rhoda Sommer (22:08.326)
Yeah, absolutely. No question about it. So I think we talked about childhood experiences influencing. Is there anything you wanted to add to that? I would say if you’re listening to
Talia Bombola, LMFT (22:34.442)
I would say if you’re listening to this and you’re frustrated with either a certain dynamic of the relationship you want, if you’re dating or you’re newly single, or the relationship you’re in or marriage you’re in, look inward and ask yourself, where have I experienced this before? What does this remind me of? And take a journey back to childhood, early friendships,
sibling relationships if you have siblings, and see if there’s a pattern. That’s what I would add to how our early childhood experiences influence our expectations. Usually we’re not so fired up in our relationships when the expectation is dashed immediately, if we haven’t also experienced it before.
That’s what I would add to how our early childhood experiences influence our expectations. Usually we’re not so fired up in our relationships when the expectation is dashed immediately if we haven’t also experienced it before. I like that. I do. How do projections and expectations contribute to conflict in relationships besides triggering our defense systems?
Talia Bombola, LMFT (23:36.268)
I would say the defense system is a huge part of it. Other ways they can contribute are comparison. So not only comparison of this is or isn’t what happened in my family growing up, this is or isn’t what happened when my previous boyfriend or girlfriend or wife or husband did this. This isn’t what I read in my book. This isn’t what I saw in this movie or nowadays saw on this reel or this TikTok.
And it’s an unfair comparison of your partner to a slice of somebody else’s real life on social media or someone who’s scripted. And the couples that I have that bring this in, say, do you also have a director and a stage manager and a camera one handed to me? And they’re like, no. I’m like, then you can’t expect your partner to follow a script. These are actors. You can date an actor, and that’s still not going to be real. Yeah.
Rhoda Sommer (24:34.16)
That’s true. Absolutely. Yeah. How can recognizing projections lead to better communication and understanding?
Talia Bombola, LMFT (24:44.312)
That is a great question. So when we’re able to recognize the conflict that we’re in is because of a projection, either an internal conflict or a mutual conflict between us and our partner, we can interrupt the system in ourselves by pausing and saying, a second, this feels familiar. This reminds me of how I used to fight with my dad. I feel like I’m sitting on the couch like a little girl getting scolded.
This feels familiar. This reminds me of how I used to fight with my dad. I feel like I’m sitting on the couch like a little girl getting scolded. This isn’t about you. Something that just happened between us or is happening between us brought me back to a time that I haven’t resolved yet. This is obviously more like advanced language, but when we’re able to integrate it, this feels more fluid. This will come naturally. This isn’t us. This is a me thing.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (25:13.954)
This isn’t about you. Something that just happened between us or is happening between us brought me back to a time that I haven’t resolved yet. This is obviously more like advanced language, but when we’re able to integrate it, this feels more fluid. This will come naturally. This isn’t us. This is a me thing. It is an us thing because we’re in relationship and I’m going to work on it. And here’s what I need from you to interrupt this pattern. So you can do this on your behalf.
It is an us thing because we’re in a relationship and I’m going to work on it. And here’s what I need from you to interrupt this pattern. So you can do this on your behalf or you can do this on the behalf of your partner. And you can be able to tell them lovingly, obviously. Many couples are like, they would yell at me more if I said this. I’m like, it’s how you say it. It’s interrupting maybe if they’re feeling safe, like going and giving them a hug and saying, I think this is something from.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (25:43.094)
Or you can do this on the behalf of your partner and you can be able to tell them lovingly, obviously. Many couples are like, they would yell at me more if I said this. I’m like, it’s how you say it. It’s interrupting maybe if they’re feeling safe, like going and giving them a hug and saying, I think this is something from your upbringing. I want to understand you better. I’m here with you in this. And I don’t think this is about
your upbringing. I want to understand you better. I’m here with you in this. And I don’t think this is about me. And this isn’t about offloading or like gaslighting your partner and not taking accountability. It’s really helping them to understand this is that dance. This is that projective identification dance. This sounds like the story you told me about that fight with your dad. And I just did this thing that probably reminded you of him. Could that be what’s coming up? So you’re making it mutual And you’re having both members of the couple understand.
Obviously this is not all in couples therapy first, but you’re making it mutual and you’re having both members of the couple understand you can lovingly invite your partner to see this may be triggered from something else rather than just us fighting. And most couples do not have ongoing conflict about topics that isn’t triggered from their childhood.
Rhoda: So what are some strategies to recognize that, that’s what’s going on?
Talia Bombola, LMFT (27:02.987)
I might be biased in this because when we do couples therapy, we have an intake. And so I ask specific questions to help them, all of us understand, tell me about your childhood home. Tell me about your upbringing, which parent was in control of the fun, which parent was in control of school. So I try to get kind of archetypes painted so both members of the couple can understand where they’re coming from, not only themselves, but where their partner’s coming
Talia Bombola, LMFT (27:32.492)
And then I invite them when they notice a pattern coming up to not engage with it the way they usually do. So let’s say my go -to is criticism or my go -to is contempt. As you’ve said before, can I pause and be curious? Can I make note, when my partner brought this up, my immediate defense was to jump to criticism. Can I interrupt that behavioral pattern?
Rhoda Sommer (27:32.784)
And then I invite them when they notice a pattern coming up to not engage with it the way they usually do. So let’s say my go -to is criticism or my go -to is contempt. As you’ve said before, can I pause and be curious? Can I make note when my partner brought this up, my immediate defense was to jump to criticism. Can I interrupt that behavioral pattern?
Talia Bombola, LMFT (27:55.854)
So when you’re trying to change the system and you’re trying to invite the partner into understanding, is this a projective identification, you have to, like you’ve mentioned too, have that active listening and attunement of, this sounds like how they described their dad or how they described their brother. It’s being an accurate historian as much as you can of what your partner shared with you. And then having the willingness to be wrong about that when you’re inviting them to say
Hey, I do feel like this might not just be about me. I want to better understand, it sounds like fill in the blank, what am I missing? You seem so passionate about this. don’t think what I did, you know, more into that. I want to understand where the gap is. And you’re diving in trying to close the disconnect and close the gap rather than conflict that’s not healthy furthers the gap. You don’t care about the disconnect. And what I tell my couples is
If you can make it a race in a funny way, how close can we get together as quickly as possible? How fast can we get back to feeling connected? Not rushing through it, but how short of a time can we spend in the disconnect? Helps you also to not get locked in these projective identification fights that can go on sometimes for months. We have good days and bad days. Then this one thing happened and everything came flooding back in. If you don’t get to the core of it and you don’t understand that part of it’s
going to happen no matter who you’re partnered with, then unfortunately you’re going to place the blame outside of where it belongs. then it, like we’ve talked about before, it’s more blame than accountability. If I can take accountability and ownership of my parts, I’m far more, I’m far less likely to have the projective identification come up in my relationship.
Rhoda Sommer (29:25.436)
Even if you can just recognize that you’ve got 15 or 20 percent if that you know and the other person certainly could have
80 or 85 percent, but you’ve got some percentage of participation in it and being able to recognize that. But it is it is asking a lot. It’s a lot of self -awareness. It’s a lot of understanding and it’s a lot of being willing to look at yourself and your own dark side and then trying to help the other person recognize this doesn’t feel true right now. This feels like it’s something old.
Maybe because there’s more intensity to it than the situation deserves. And I think the interpretation of the level of intensity makes all the difference. Some partners will experience that, feel threatened by it and shut down or not engage. When in reality, if you’re able to hold both as true, this is this intense for my partner and it’s not as intense for me. How can I without invalidating their intensity?
Talia Bombola, LMFT (30:26.478)
And I think the interpretation of the level of intensity makes all the difference. Some partners will experience that, feel threatened by it and shut down or not engage. When in reality, if you’re able to both as true, this is intense for my partner and it’s not as intense for me. How can I without invalidating their intensity, join them maybe next to not in, but next to the intensity.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (30:56.362)
And I give the analogy a lot of like the head floor of an elevator and the heart floor. If I’m up here and I’m stuck in logic and trying to defend, no, this is what makes sense. You shouldn’t have done that. And my partner stuck on the emotion floor while it hurt. And this is where I’m emotional. And this is where maybe the intensity is coming from. If you’re not on the same floor, you’re metaphorically shouting up or down the elevator shaft at each other. You’re not having a conversation. So ideally you get on the same
floor, whether it’s both logic or both emotion, before you dive into these topics. Otherwise, again, it will be more of a fight because you’re trying to deep down get your partner to be with you. Like, I don’t want to go there because I don’t like feelings. Or the emotional one is like, it’s not just logic. Like, there’s feelings involved too. There can be both. There’s room for both.
Rhoda Sommer (31:48.558)
And so yeah, you can even decide, can we try to talk about this from the head logic issue? And then let’s talk from the emotion issue. And that’s really neat. I had not heard that before. I really like the elevator shaft. That’s really cool. Thank you. How can individuals differentiate between healthy expectations and unrealistic ones? What tips do you have?
Talia Bombola, LMFT (32:12.608)
great question. Is this an expectation that you have seen come true, whether asked or kind of just unasked, right, like an expectation, something you should do without me having to ask, is this something you’ve seen in other real life relationships that you know of? So do you see people regularly like holding the door open as a pretty neutral example? That exists.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (32:40.428)
That is not an entirely unrealistic expectation because human beings do that, even without being asked. Maybe they were taught growing up, it’s a polite thing to do, like there’s some education around it, but it’s not unrealistic, i .e. it doesn’t exist, or you’re asking for something that is unprecedented. So it’s being aware of what the expectation is, where it comes from, how it would make you feel, and are there other behaviors your partner does
that could also have you feel that way if they’re unable to fill that expectation. So I think realistic expectations.
are ones that you see actually play out that you would just have to ask to come true and unrealistic expectations would be more lofty or absolutist language like you should always be available for me. You should never criticize me. Any use of
the whatever the words are for the always and never. and never, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutes. So more like absolutist language would be unrealistic.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (33:36.152)
whatever the words are for the always and never, I always blank on them. Yeah, absolutes. So more like absolutist language would be unrealistic. Or if it’s only based off of media where it’s scripted, that would be unrealistic because we don’t have directors running our lives, like I mentioned, hopefully, unless you’re the Truman Show. It’s more about, have you seen this play out? Do you like
Do you like it? Can you ask for this from your partner? And do you feel comfortable enough in yourself and knowing yourself, if they say no to a realistic expectation, they don’t agree to it, can you still function in the relationship as your authentic
self? That is a question I think you ultimately have to answer deeper below the expectations. If it doesn’t come through, would you still participate in the relationship?
Rhoda Sommer (34:17.146)
I like that. I like helping figure that out. Are there specific techniques or exercises you recommend for individuals or couples to address projections and expectations in their relationships? Or how can we be less reactive and more curious?
Talia Bombola, LMFT (34:47.072)
Individual therapy is what I will, I try not to use this word, but always recommend. It helps so much to have a space of your own to feel contained and to process whatever material is coming up in your relationship or in your day -to -day life. And as you mentioned before, having that objective person to help you frame and draw connections.
this kind of sounds like the fight that you had with your boss. Could this be a theme? It helps increase the self -awareness. So I would say individual therapy if you’re able to, if that’s accessible. If not, other methods of increasing self -awareness, listening to podcasts, reading self -help books, not to add an ad nauseum level, but to a level where you can actually understand how you are experienced by your partner when conflict comes up.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (35:46.542)
I’ve had one couple, they both knew that they were filming, but they knew it was going to be a hot topic. So they both set their phones to be able to see each other and not just themselves. And so they have the full frame and they went back and looked, they’re like, that’s what I look like when I yell? God. Like they were able to see, I totally get now why you react that way because I make that face. That’s disgusting. Like they are able to take accountability. whether that’s
you know, being around a mirror, actually being able to see or hear yourself and ask your friends, this is an uncomfortable exercise, you know, what are some growth edges that you’ve noticed that I have? What, when we have conflict, do you feel comfortable coming to me about that? So it might feel too high stakes to ask your partner this. Can you go to your family if that feels safe? Can you go to your friend if that feels safe? Can you, if you have a therapist, can you ask them for feedback? What have you noticed about me that I could keep working on or that is a growth edge?
Talia Bombola, LMFT (36:43.852)
and you’re wanting to take accountability, not immediately attack them for the information you asked for about them. So I think it all boils down to increasing self -awareness and being able to address those projections and expectations comes from having more honest discussions. How was your family system growing up? And this can be asked as early as the first date. What was your childhood like? Very general question that people tend to project onto. it was great. We never fought.
And I’m like, that’s immediately a red flag. It’s knowing it’s rather it’s learning to listen intently, not with judgment, but with discernment. Can I discern and ask further questions? Did you have a favorite experience from your childhood? Or like I asked when I’m in the therapy chair as the therapist, you who is the disciplinarian? Who was the fun one? Were emotions allowed in your house?
were only certain emotions allowed in your house. These are all questions that you can be asking your partner, separate from what’s your favorite color or where do you like to travel for winter. I’m biased. I think we should be asking the deeper, more uncomfortable questions first because we’ll never travel to the Alps if you had a certain family system. It’s just not gonna work.
Rhoda: I always have my single people who are dating ask, what did you learn from the last relationship that you had? and very few people seem to be able to answer that, but it’s a really great question, you know? Yes. About whether or not they’re willing to look at themselves. What is a book you recommend? There was one you had mentioned.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (38:23.574)
yeah, it’s called You’re Not What I Expected, Love After The Romance Has Ended
Rhoda Sommer (38:34.702)
You do a lot of work with people on self -worth. So what can my audience do to rewire their brains to deal with their own projections and expectations?
Talia Bombola, LMFT (38:45.43)
I have an exercise that I give to my clients. I’m happy to give to your audience. It’s an offshoot of what’s called the Johari window. So it’s bit of shadow work and parts work integrated. So you take a piece of paper and you draw four quadrants. And there’s different ways you can do this, but this is the way that I teach. You put ideal self in the top left corner. And this would be who you want to be or who you want others to perceive you as. And then you put your, again, there’s many iterations, you put the not self in the bottom right. People would never describe you as this. Like people would never describe me as meek. If somebody’s like, have you met Talia? She’s so meek. They’d be like, who? Like, you didn’t meet, no.
It’s it would be such an immediate trait that you’d list. It’s not authentic for you or others to describe you this way. And then you have good and bad self in one iteration. You put the good self up next to ideal self and you put the bad self. This isn’t shame or judgment. These are traits that you’re like, I don’t want people to know this about me. I would be horrified if people discovered this or these are growth edges for me. I know I’m working on all of that is encapsulated there. So good self would be the traits you love about yourself.
Bad self would be the traits that, again, I’ve already described you’re working on, or that you don’t want people to find out about. And that helps
That self would be the traits that again, I’ve already described you’re working on or that you don’t want people to find out about. And that helps you on a foundational basis to understand where some of your expectations come from of how others should be. Because like we talked about with projections, if they’re just on parts of myself, which quadrant are they coming from? What part of me am I disowning? So that’s probably the top exercise that I give to clients. It’s more lengthy than that. I can give a link to it if you want. can put it in the show notes. But just verbally, that’s the easiest way to describe it. So you can kind of see yourself on paper.
probably the top exercise that I give to clients. It’s more lengthy than that. can give a link to it if you want. can put it in the show notes. sure. But just verbally, that’s the easiest way to describe it. So you can kind of see yourself on paper. And then the next step of that would be if you felt comfortable asking one trusted friend that you’ve known for quite some time to add on to it. Sometimes you can have them add on to what you wrote.
but sometimes you can just have them fill it out on your behalf, like a separate sheet of paper. And then you can kind of compare and go, OK, I’m pretty on base. Yeah.
Rhoda Sommer (40:52.912)
Anything we haven’t covered you’d like to add for my audience? Great question.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (41:11.95)
Yes, I actually would like to add something. Whether or not you think whatever you’re struggling with, like you’d be able to escape another relationship, unless you go in and do the work in therapy, you won’t be able to escape it. Because no matter where you go, there you are. And oftentimes the source of our conflict and our upset in our relationships, our dashed expectations, come from our own inability
to voice what we want and need, which is stemming from a lack of knowledge of what we want and need. We’re not taught that growing, at least in my generation and previous generations, weren’t sat down and like, what do you want from life? We were told what we would want. We were told who we would be and not be. So I love Carl Jung, a great analyst, and he describes that first part, first half, no number specific, first half of your life is being who everybody else wants you to
be.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (42:10.03)
and then the second half is the unknowing, the unlearning of all of that and discovering your authentic self and who you really are. If you’re in that second half of your life and you’re in a relationship and you have conflict, as long as there’s no abuse or deal -breakers present, it might be worthwhile to try to work through it, to have that longevity, to have a long -term partnership. When you’re with somebody for five, 10, 15, 50 years,
Talia Bombola, LMFT (42:36.204)
I always look at couples that have lasted that long and go, I wonder how many times they had to forgive each other. I wonder how many times had to forgive each other. I wonder how many times they had to see the other person’s perspective. How many times they had to take the high road or exit the high road so their partner could take the high road. That there’s this feeling of mutuality in a relationship that lasts a long time.
You won’t always be right.
you won’t always be wrong. If you choose to though, you can remain in the relationship. And to have that couple state of mind and understand it’s not just one person or the other person. There’s a greater good, there’s a higher goal that both of you are working for and to filter choices through that couple state of mind is what helps couples last a long time.
Rhoda Sommer (43:06.074)
There was a clip. I think it was on Instagram of Susan Sarandon
I never remember seeing this, so I don’t know what movie it’s from. She’s at a bar and the guy looks at her and he says, so what do you, why do you think people get married? And he goes, you probably think it’s romance, right? And she goes, no. And he goes, okay, what do you think it is? And she says, it’s, there are billions and billions of people in the world. And we
When you marry somebody, you’re saying, I will be your witness. I will understand who you are over time, and we will be each other’s witness. And as somebody who’s been married in a few weeks, 51 years, I really think that’s what it’s about. There’s nobody that understands and gets me the way my husband does.
It’s such a powerful feeling this late in the game, you know? There’s a sense of we worked really hard and it’s not tiptoeing through the tulips. It’s work. I think I always want to change wedding vows because they’re so syrupy. And yes, they say for rich or for poor, but it’s I want them to talk about the work of relationships.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (44:49.325)
Yes.
Rhoda Sommer (44:56.892)
And in years six to 10, when you begin to doubt because your illusions have fallen apart, I’m committed to figuring things out with you. It doesn’t mean you’ll necessarily stay together, but I’m committed to figuring things out with you is a very important thing.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (45:14.7)
I agree.
I’ve been the maid of honor three times. So having that position, I’ve heard a lot of vow like drafts, rough drafts, final drafts, and being a therapist I’ve heard them too, that I wanted to quote, I was pulling up, I wanted to quote part of one of the speeches I gave that being in a relationship is one of the most amazing gifts we can give ourselves.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (48:20.511)
A gift that sometimes you wish you could return or exchange, it can be tough. But I joke like, you may have even gone back to the store to see if it’s possible, then you realize you were just having a moment, like, you’re building two lives into one, you’re going to have many moments along the way. And like you said in the vows, it’s like from this day forward, for better or worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, you’re choosing this person. And I asked the couples I work with, if you knew you’d only ever get like the negative:
or the poorer, the sickness, would you still choose that? And if you can confidently say yes, if the good times are only a hope and I know we’re only gonna get the, can I curse just yet, to deal with, that would you still choose that partner? That’s the person you wanna go through life with because there has to be some sort of reality to it. It’s not all the day of the wedding. The wedding’s one day. Your marriage or your relationship, if you choose to not have that ceremony, is the rest of your life.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (49:19.982)
And I think the person you marry or partner with the day you make that decision, that commitment, is not the same person that you’ll be married to in 50 years if you’re doing it right. Because you’re going to grow into a hundred different versions of yourself over the lifetime of your relationship, and so is your spouse. And in each version, it’s your job to invite your partner to meet you, to empathize in the change in their perspective, and in doing so, hopefully fall in
again and again. Sometimes it feels like a marathon, sometimes it feels like a sprint, but for that longevity of the relationship, don’t expect them to be the same as they were the day you met them. And that’s probably the best note on expectations.
Rhoda Sommer (49:49.727)
Share with my audience where they can reach you and listen to your and the name of your podcast.
Talia Bombola, LMFT (50:11.532)
Sure. So I’m most active on Instagram and my username is my name, Talia Bombola, spelled phonetically. And then my website for coaching is taliabombola .com. If you’re a resident of California, anywhere in California, I can see you as a therapist. That’s therapywithtalia .com. And then my two podcasts I have currently going are Heal Through Humor and Between Two Clinicians. Heal Through Humor is as it sounds.
And then my website for coaching is talibambola .com. If you’re a resident of California, anywhere in California, I can see you as a therapist. That’s therapywithtalia .com. And then my two podcasts I have currently going are Heal Through Humor and Between Two Clinicians. Heal Through Humor is as it sounds. I interview other guests who are mainly clinicians, but also coaches. And we put a humorous spin on their topic of choice or their passion.
And then between two clinicians is myself and another co -host and we do like hot takes on hot topics. So we did an episode like, think I have a crush on my therapist or my partner finally went to therapy after years of asking, but I don’t want them anymore. Like they made the change in what do I do? So we try to pick topics we either see in our therapy room or that we’ve read on the internet that we think having an actual clinical opinion on would be beneficial.
